Vote for why you think it jumped
Never Jumped
New Kid In Town (Dawn)
Death (Tara)
Singing (The Musical)
Graduation
Shark Bytes
Buffy was an amazing show--- no doubt about that. But of course, every show has its ups and downs, and that for me was with Dawn and Tara's death.
Dawn to me seemed quite annoying. From season 5 and on, it always seemed to be about her. Season 5 practically revolved around her since she was the Key. Though, I did like how Dawn would look up to Willow and Tara as parental figures to her. But to me, she just seemed to be a very annoying addition to the Scooby Gang.
As for Tara's death, I was completely shocked. It just so happened that the stray bullet Warren shot went through the window and went straight at Tara. I also didn't like how her very last words to Willow weren't "I love you" or "I'll never leave you", but it was "Your shirt."
...
No comment.
It wasn't even romantic--- it was just BLAH. I balled my eyes out when she died, but I think Joss Whedon could've made her say something more loving other than "Your shirt." To me, that was just so upsetting. Tara was one of the best additions to the Gang (and Spike, of course!) and as soon as I saw "Hush" I knew that she would be one of my favorites.
Even though I completely loved Tara's character, I didn't like the fact how once Oz left, Willow decided that she was a lesbian. I didn't even like the fact that Oz left in the first place. He was so cool and chill (except his wolfie side, of course ^^) and I was sad to see him go.
As for Buffy's relationship, in season 1, Angel was one of favorites too. But as the seasons went on, he started to get on my nerves. When he lost his soul, it was very different for me since we're all so used to him being so protective of Buffy, but to see them both fight in season 2 was very strange to watch. Season 2 was a good season, especially when Spike came in the picture. By season 3, I was, in a way, glad to see Angel leave for a bit. It was time for him to get on his own spin-off ^_^
Another thing that I didn't quite get is why Cordelia suddenly left. After the big battle at Graduation, she just didn't show up anymore. We assume that she goes off herself, going to a different college than the rest of the Scoobies. Joss Whedon didn't intend to bring Spike back, but since Cordy left, Spike was basically the new Cordelia, and in some cases, people didn't like the idea. But I love Spike and I was also sad when he died at the end, as well as Anya.
Well, that's basically it. The show was well done and Joss Whedon is a brilliant man. As far as "Once More, With Feeling", that to me was one of my favorite episodes. It was challenging for the cast, but it showed that they could pull it off, just as they did with "Hush." Buffy will always be one of my favorite shows, and it really gives out a wonderful message to young adults and adults. ROCK ON BUFFY! :D
Dawn to me seemed quite annoying. From season 5 and on, it always seemed to be about her. Season 5 practically revolved around her since she was the Key. Though, I did like how Dawn would look up to Willow and Tara as parental figures to her. But to me, she just seemed to be a very annoying addition to the Scooby Gang.
As for Tara's death, I was completely shocked. It just so happened that the stray bullet Warren shot went through the window and went straight at Tara. I also didn't like how her very last words to Willow weren't "I love you" or "I'll never leave you", but it was "Your shirt."
...
No comment.
It wasn't even romantic--- it was just BLAH. I balled my eyes out when she died, but I think Joss Whedon could've made her say something more loving other than "Your shirt." To me, that was just so upsetting. Tara was one of the best additions to the Gang (and Spike, of course!) and as soon as I saw "Hush" I knew that she would be one of my favorites.
Even though I completely loved Tara's character, I didn't like the fact how once Oz left, Willow decided that she was a lesbian. I didn't even like the fact that Oz left in the first place. He was so cool and chill (except his wolfie side, of course ^^) and I was sad to see him go.
As for Buffy's relationship, in season 1, Angel was one of favorites too. But as the seasons went on, he started to get on my nerves. When he lost his soul, it was very different for me since we're all so used to him being so protective of Buffy, but to see them both fight in season 2 was very strange to watch. Season 2 was a good season, especially when Spike came in the picture. By season 3, I was, in a way, glad to see Angel leave for a bit. It was time for him to get on his own spin-off ^_^
Another thing that I didn't quite get is why Cordelia suddenly left. After the big battle at Graduation, she just didn't show up anymore. We assume that she goes off herself, going to a different college than the rest of the Scoobies. Joss Whedon didn't intend to bring Spike back, but since Cordy left, Spike was basically the new Cordelia, and in some cases, people didn't like the idea. But I love Spike and I was also sad when he died at the end, as well as Anya.
Well, that's basically it. The show was well done and Joss Whedon is a brilliant man. As far as "Once More, With Feeling", that to me was one of my favorite episodes. It was challenging for the cast, but it showed that they could pull it off, just as they did with "Hush." Buffy will always be one of my favorite shows, and it really gives out a wonderful message to young adults and adults. ROCK ON BUFFY! :D
This totally jumped for me between season six and seven. Dark Willow was "let's see just how far away from the point we can possibly get", she was unbearably annoying and abandoned her grief driven rage for 'gee, I'm like every other villain, I know! I'll find a previously unmentioned way to end the world!" Then comes Season Seven, which they should have just called the Men are Bad Girl Power Hour.
Seriously though, the moment that wrecked the show for me was the failed wedding between Xander and Anya. It was at that point that I realized a universal truth about Joss Whedon that has been the case for every single relationship in every single work I have ever seen him make: they won't end well. No matter how happy the characters are, no matter how improbable or how far of a departure from character it is, relationships are like the Cubs in the world series. No matter what has to go wrong for them to fail, it will.
Oh, and the attempted rape scene annoyed the hell out of me. It was pretty weak and fit the above convention... but that's not why it annoyed me. She's the Slayer for crying out loud! They've been beating Spike up recreationally since season two! Even Xander does it... constantly. But, she hurt her back. Oh No! Now she's powerless!
Seriously.
The Dark Willow arc was really weak for a lot of reasons, I'll only mention one, one that broke my sense of disbelief. Warren nearly kills her with a gun.
A gun! That's right! She's been at this for six years (well, more) and not once has *anyone else* thought of trying guns! Nobody! Sure, Adam tried a minigun, but only once to showcase how strong SUPER Buffy was. A lot of demons, vampires, things that go bump, and regular thugs must be banging their heads against the wall.
Seriously though, the moment that wrecked the show for me was the failed wedding between Xander and Anya. It was at that point that I realized a universal truth about Joss Whedon that has been the case for every single relationship in every single work I have ever seen him make: they won't end well. No matter how happy the characters are, no matter how improbable or how far of a departure from character it is, relationships are like the Cubs in the world series. No matter what has to go wrong for them to fail, it will.
Oh, and the attempted rape scene annoyed the hell out of me. It was pretty weak and fit the above convention... but that's not why it annoyed me. She's the Slayer for crying out loud! They've been beating Spike up recreationally since season two! Even Xander does it... constantly. But, she hurt her back. Oh No! Now she's powerless!
Seriously.
The Dark Willow arc was really weak for a lot of reasons, I'll only mention one, one that broke my sense of disbelief. Warren nearly kills her with a gun.
A gun! That's right! She's been at this for six years (well, more) and not once has *anyone else* thought of trying guns! Nobody! Sure, Adam tried a minigun, but only once to showcase how strong SUPER Buffy was. A lot of demons, vampires, things that go bump, and regular thugs must be banging their heads against the wall.
Gradution was the turning point. Can you name any show that was the same after graduation? I think the episode Seth Green left was the end of Buffy. You have to give him credit for jumping on the ship when it was hot and off when it was not.
I agree. Season 7 was decent enough and Chosen was a very solid finale.
But people really missed Tara - she was a breath of fresh air on a show that sometimes makes you feel claustrophobic for watching sad, unsatisfied, and some really annoying (hello, Kennedy!) characters.
But people really missed Tara - she was a breath of fresh air on a show that sometimes makes you feel claustrophobic for watching sad, unsatisfied, and some really annoying (hello, Kennedy!) characters.
The show never jumped. For a show to jump the shark, something must happen that makes its decline irreversible.
That didn't happen. Yes, the show did decline, but the decline wasn't irreversible.
The closest the show came to jumping the shark, in my opinion, was graduation. The show was never the same after that. But while it was different, and not quite as good as before, it was still good.
That didn't happen. Yes, the show did decline, but the decline wasn't irreversible.
The closest the show came to jumping the shark, in my opinion, was graduation. The show was never the same after that. But while it was different, and not quite as good as before, it was still good.
I watched Buffy from Season 1 to Season 7 and it was and still is my all-time favorite show. The show never "jumped the shark", but there was a point when I became less interested.
First, let me say that I am a die hard Buffy/Angel fan. I was heartbroken when he turned evil, when Buffy sent him to hell and when Angel left her.
Things I Loved
-Buffy and Angel
-Willow and Oz
-Spike before he had a thing for Buffy and had a soul (he was quite funny)
-Faith (when she was good AND bad)
-Willow getting addicted to magic
-Evil Willow
-The amazing writing when Buffy's mother passed away
Things I HATED:
-Angel leaving =(
-Spike/Buffy
-Riley/Buffy
Things I didn't like:
-Riley and his corn fed Iowa act. Whenever he was on, I threw things at the TV
- Buffy sleeping with Parker after knowing him for 12 hours.
-The sudden appearance of Dawn and how everyone magically had memories with her
-Oz cheating on Willow
-Adam, Glory, Caleb and all those potential slayers
-Giles moving to England
-The Initiative (basically anything to do with Riley I hated)
-Xander losing his eye
-Not using Faith's character enough
-The musical
First, let me say that I am a die hard Buffy/Angel fan. I was heartbroken when he turned evil, when Buffy sent him to hell and when Angel left her.
Things I Loved
-Buffy and Angel
-Willow and Oz
-Spike before he had a thing for Buffy and had a soul (he was quite funny)
-Faith (when she was good AND bad)
-Willow getting addicted to magic
-Evil Willow
-The amazing writing when Buffy's mother passed away
Things I HATED:
-Angel leaving =(
-Spike/Buffy
-Riley/Buffy
Things I didn't like:
-Riley and his corn fed Iowa act. Whenever he was on, I threw things at the TV
- Buffy sleeping with Parker after knowing him for 12 hours.
-The sudden appearance of Dawn and how everyone magically had memories with her
-Oz cheating on Willow
-Adam, Glory, Caleb and all those potential slayers
-Giles moving to England
-The Initiative (basically anything to do with Riley I hated)
-Xander losing his eye
-Not using Faith's character enough
-The musical
This show jumped the shark when they made Willow gay after something like four seasons of her being stright also the whole Spike turning good plot line was just too cleiche for words
Having watched the seasons in order on DVD more times than I want to admit, Willow suddenly being gay is when it went down hill.
Have read several comments on here. I don't believe the show ever jumped the shark. One way that this show was completely different from other TV shows was that it used its success as an allowance for experimentation with story and character. This is something that, until Buffy, was not seen at all. However, I have my quibbles, as does everyone else, and here they are:
1) I disliked the fact that while every character seemed to get an episode that explained why they were who they were, this never seemed to happen for Oz. Oz was the most interesting and underwritten character on the show, and I always felt that there should have been an episode or at least some scenes in the episodes after he left showing him dealing with his werewolf curse. Tara was a good addition, but never seemed to interact much with the other characters except for Willow, which I felt was a mistake. Her death seemed like an excuse for making Willow the big bad and then doing the rather tedious and badly thought-ought analogy of Willow's "addiction" and should not have happened. Tara should have been there to the end.
2) I didn't buy Willow's sudden lesbian transformation either. In some bits it seemed that this was being presented as a consequence of her witchcraft studies, and I think that she should have been presented as bisexual rather than lesbian. The business where she and Xander suddenly fall in violent lust with each other after both have moved on with other partners didn't feel right either; at best they should have had an episode where both characters fully realized the other's importance. The core group of Buffy, Willow, Giles and Xander was built so strongly at the beginning that it was obvious there was no way these characters would be able to fully part ways. They began as a family, and I am happy to say that they continued as a family to the end.
3) I felt that the entire business with Angel/Angelus for Season 2 was, while necessary, unduly harsh in its execution sometimes.
4) The musical made me feel that BTVS was trying to compete with the Xena: Warrior Princess musical episode in the same way that the Initiative made me feel that BTVS was trying to compete with the X-Files.
5) The "demon" thing was overused, and many times felt lke an excuse.
6) I despised Glory. It was hard for me to buy the idea of an Uber-Evil being untouchable for almost an entire season when it was presented as a selfish spoiled brat.
7) The Trio were stupid. I thought the turning of Jonathan into an evil person was exceptionally sad, but I suppose one can only be ignored so much. It was made all the worse by the fact that he was the one who made the Protector speech in "The Prom" and gave Buffy her award.
8) Sunday should have had more of a story arc as a villain.
9) Dawn was not a bad idea, but poorly executed. Her being the Key felt as though someone had written themselves into a corner.
10) Um... Buffy Vs. Dracula???
11) Should have been some wins for Season 6. The whole thing felt like a long drag through Hell, and it contributed heavily to Buffy becoming so unlikable in Season 7.
As for the comic, I am not liking Buffy's sudden lesbian exploration; it feels too much like "this worked before so let's do it again."
1) I disliked the fact that while every character seemed to get an episode that explained why they were who they were, this never seemed to happen for Oz. Oz was the most interesting and underwritten character on the show, and I always felt that there should have been an episode or at least some scenes in the episodes after he left showing him dealing with his werewolf curse. Tara was a good addition, but never seemed to interact much with the other characters except for Willow, which I felt was a mistake. Her death seemed like an excuse for making Willow the big bad and then doing the rather tedious and badly thought-ought analogy of Willow's "addiction" and should not have happened. Tara should have been there to the end.
2) I didn't buy Willow's sudden lesbian transformation either. In some bits it seemed that this was being presented as a consequence of her witchcraft studies, and I think that she should have been presented as bisexual rather than lesbian. The business where she and Xander suddenly fall in violent lust with each other after both have moved on with other partners didn't feel right either; at best they should have had an episode where both characters fully realized the other's importance. The core group of Buffy, Willow, Giles and Xander was built so strongly at the beginning that it was obvious there was no way these characters would be able to fully part ways. They began as a family, and I am happy to say that they continued as a family to the end.
3) I felt that the entire business with Angel/Angelus for Season 2 was, while necessary, unduly harsh in its execution sometimes.
4) The musical made me feel that BTVS was trying to compete with the Xena: Warrior Princess musical episode in the same way that the Initiative made me feel that BTVS was trying to compete with the X-Files.
5) The "demon" thing was overused, and many times felt lke an excuse.
6) I despised Glory. It was hard for me to buy the idea of an Uber-Evil being untouchable for almost an entire season when it was presented as a selfish spoiled brat.
7) The Trio were stupid. I thought the turning of Jonathan into an evil person was exceptionally sad, but I suppose one can only be ignored so much. It was made all the worse by the fact that he was the one who made the Protector speech in "The Prom" and gave Buffy her award.
8) Sunday should have had more of a story arc as a villain.
9) Dawn was not a bad idea, but poorly executed. Her being the Key felt as though someone had written themselves into a corner.
10) Um... Buffy Vs. Dracula???
11) Should have been some wins for Season 6. The whole thing felt like a long drag through Hell, and it contributed heavily to Buffy becoming so unlikable in Season 7.
As for the comic, I am not liking Buffy's sudden lesbian exploration; it feels too much like "this worked before so let's do it again."
If the second season was treated as a mini mini-series, the show would have been a classic. Everything from Season 3 onward just wasn't the same (other than Spike).
I don't think the show ever really JTS but I absolutely hate the killing of Anya and Spike in the final episode. I just see it as the characters were used up and thrown out. Being as useful as they were they should have survived. Losing the potentials or Wood and/or Faith would've been a better way to go. They made the sseasons prior worth watching. To me it made the ending an absolutely disappointing mistake.
Since Bill asked...why Willow suddenly turning lesbian might be a problem.
I am not gay, but bi, but... I've never quite bought into 'suddenly one day waking up any particular sexuality.' So, a character who's been falling in love with people of the opposite gender suddenly going after their own...has a bad feel.
It feels like somebody in the writing team went, "Oh, wait, we forgot to add the token LGBT character, so let's just have one of established characters suddenly discover their love for their own gender and forget that they ever loved the other!"
Just think how it'd be if they'd had done it the other way around -- if they'd established her as a lesbian, and had her suddenly turn straight. There's no real difference here, except the order.
I am not gay, but bi, but... I've never quite bought into 'suddenly one day waking up any particular sexuality.' So, a character who's been falling in love with people of the opposite gender suddenly going after their own...has a bad feel.
It feels like somebody in the writing team went, "Oh, wait, we forgot to add the token LGBT character, so let's just have one of established characters suddenly discover their love for their own gender and forget that they ever loved the other!"
Just think how it'd be if they'd had done it the other way around -- if they'd established her as a lesbian, and had her suddenly turn straight. There's no real difference here, except the order.
The show actually reverse jumped. Sit down and watch When She Was Bad, Some Assembly Required, School Hard, Reptile Boy, Inca Mummy Girl, and Halloween. Then sit down and watch Barganing, Afterlife, Flooded, Life Serial, Once More With Feeling, and Tabula Rasa. Or sit down and watch Lessons, Beneath You, Same Time Same Place, Help, Selfless, and Conversations with Dead People
Which season deserves to be remembered as classic again?
Don't get me wrong, there were aspects I enjoyed from all seasons, but seasons 1, 2, 3 are so overated it's ridiculous. Most people listing their top ten Buffy episodes will pick from the later seasons. Like episodes Teacher's Pet, Bad Eggs, and Beauty and The Beast deserve to be remembered as great works of art. The later seasons were much more complex and interesting, an episode like Reptile Boy with a phallic monster is so shallow and obvious which the smart viewers recongise
And maybe Buffy/Spike weren't popular with everyone, but Buffy/Riley had way more sex scenes, and at least Buffy/Spike had chemistry for their scenes. And people have selective memories with Buffy/Angel so they just think of the amazing Angelus plot from season 2. But if you sit down and watch the shallow reasons they first fell for one another in season 1, and then the ridiculously boring scenes from season 3 of Angel working out while Buffy stands there drooling. Joss even admitted that they were running out of storylines for Buffy/Angel in season 3, the spin-off came along just in time. And there's seriously arguments here that we should had more of those Buffy/Angel scenes in seasons 4, 5, 6, and 7? Their story was played out in season 2, Joss knew it too
Every season has faults, but the way people rip aside the later plots is just out of proportion, especially if you're going to sit there and seriously argue that an episode with fish monsters was great television
Which season deserves to be remembered as classic again?
Don't get me wrong, there were aspects I enjoyed from all seasons, but seasons 1, 2, 3 are so overated it's ridiculous. Most people listing their top ten Buffy episodes will pick from the later seasons. Like episodes Teacher's Pet, Bad Eggs, and Beauty and The Beast deserve to be remembered as great works of art. The later seasons were much more complex and interesting, an episode like Reptile Boy with a phallic monster is so shallow and obvious which the smart viewers recongise
And maybe Buffy/Spike weren't popular with everyone, but Buffy/Riley had way more sex scenes, and at least Buffy/Spike had chemistry for their scenes. And people have selective memories with Buffy/Angel so they just think of the amazing Angelus plot from season 2. But if you sit down and watch the shallow reasons they first fell for one another in season 1, and then the ridiculously boring scenes from season 3 of Angel working out while Buffy stands there drooling. Joss even admitted that they were running out of storylines for Buffy/Angel in season 3, the spin-off came along just in time. And there's seriously arguments here that we should had more of those Buffy/Angel scenes in seasons 4, 5, 6, and 7? Their story was played out in season 2, Joss knew it too
Every season has faults, but the way people rip aside the later plots is just out of proportion, especially if you're going to sit there and seriously argue that an episode with fish monsters was great television
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